ViewMate - Image Archive, Image 115613 - Translation - Polish - Poland - Dobrzyn nad Drweca - London, Grotszteyn


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Information

Picture

Question

Category: Translation - Polish
Approval Date: 10/18/2026 5:26 PM
Family Surname: London, Grotszteyn
Country: Poland
Town: Dobrzyn nad Drweca
Date of Image: 1859

Click the picture to enlarge

From Szukaj w Archiwach.

This is my great-great-great-grandparents‘ 1859 marriage record from Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą, Rypin, Płock, Poland. JRI-Poland lists the following information from this record:

Date: 4 January 1859 (I assume this is the Gregorian date);
Groom: Salamon LONDON aged 24, son of Dawid & Bayla;
Bride: Szprinca GROTSZTEYN aged 19, daughter of Rubin & Bayla;
Rabbi: Jakob BRAUN;
Witness: Binem WOLDENBERG aged 28.

I don’t need a full translation, but, since this is a particularly important record for me, I’d be grateful if someone could:

1) Check whether all the details listed above are correct; and
2) Tell me any other details from the record, such as the mothers’ maiden names, the parents’ patronymics, occupations, residences, birth places, the parents’ living statuses, and the parties’ marital statuses (whether either of them had been previously married).

Thanks so much!

Response

10/18/2026 8:22 PM

Yes to Gregorian date (23 December was the Julian date).

Groom: Salomon LONDON, single, aged 24, tanner's journeyman (czeladnik garbarz), born in Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą, son of spouses Dawid and Bajle (née MUNTER) LONDON, and residing in Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą.

Bride: Szprinca GROTSZTEJN, single, aged 19, born in Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą, daughter of spouses Rubin and the deceased Bajla (née Jozef) GROTSZTEJN, staying with father in Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą.

Rabbi: Jakob BRAUN, assistant/deputy rabbi of Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą.

Witnesses: Dawid MYSZKA, trader aged 40 and Binem WOLDENBERG, teacher of Jewish children aged 28, both residing in Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą.

Banns: 18, 25 September and 2 October 1858 in the Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą synagogue.

The newlyweds did not sign a prenuptial agreement.

10/30/2026 5:24 PM

Hi I am testing/developing AI routines which "analyse" polish vital records. As you may or may not know AI routines struggle with interpreting names and occupations accurately in these and a lot of people argue that AI simple doesn't work.

My area of interest is studying why they don't work and developing remedial and mitigating fixes... I took the liberty of running some code against your image looking specifically at the names... I thought you might be interested

this is a a CSV which you can cut and paste into a spreadsheet

# CSV 2: Name Extraction & Expansion for Image 1
extraction_1 = """Role,Raw Extracted String,Given Name Options,Family Name Options,Patronymic Options,Notes/Issues
Groom,Salomon London,Salomon,London,,Clean string
Groom's Father,Dawid London,Dawid,London,,Clean string
Groom's Mother,Bajla z Munterów,Bajla,,Munter (Maiden),Maiden name marker 'z'
Bride,Szprynca Grotsztejn,Szprynca,Grotsztejn,,Clean string
Bride's Father,Rubin Grotsztejn,Rubin,Grotsztejn,,Clean string
Bride's Mother,Bajla z Szaferskich,Bajla,,Szaferska (Maiden),Maiden name marker 'z'
Witness 1,Dawid Myszka,Dawid,Myszka,,Clean string
Witness 2,Binem Woldenberg,Binem,Woldenberg,,Clean string
Officiant,Jakób Braun,Jakób,Braun,,Clean string"""

as you can see it closely follows the previous response you received albeit with some minor differences ....and 1 major (?)

The reference to clean string refers to quality assessment on the extracted name from raw transcription- taking into account possible amnbiguous and unreadable characters

the discrepancy ? related to the brides mother maiden (Patronymic) name which the AI reads differently to your other response

The AI analyses as follows

* **Role: Bride's Mother**
* **Step 1 Extracted:** `Bajla z Szaferskich`
* **Step 2 Normalised:** `Bajla Szafer`
* **Step 3 DM Codes:** Given: `PL` | Maiden Family: `SFR`
* **Ranked Probable Names:**
1. **Given:** Bajla (LD: 0) *(Source: Dobrzyń Vital Records)*, Baila (LD: 1) *(Source: JewishGen)*
2. **Maiden Family:** Szafer (LD: 0) *(Source: Dobrzyń Records)*, Schäfer (LD: 2) *(Source: JewishGen)*, Szafran (LD: 3) *(Source: Unverified)*

to cut a long story short the AI has stripped of the polish gender suffix from the Patronymic, found the phonetic code for the root and done a search through jewish name directories for same region and period as the record to retrieve probable names (they are not definite but AI is essentially doing a sophisticate spell check - LD code is reference to the algorith used to work out closest match - the suggestions are ranked

Point is ..it is not "jozef"

and just to make sure AI wasn't hallucinating (although there is a hallucination check built in ) I checked the raw transcription

Line 11: synem Dawida i Bajli z Munterów Małżonków London
Line 12: lat dwadzieścia cztery mającym w Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą
Line 13: zamieszkałym, a Szpryncą Grotsztejn panną urodzoną
Line 14: w Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą córką Rubina i niegdy Baj-
Line 15: li z Szaferskich Małżonków Grotsztejn lat dziewiętnaście mającą
Line 16: przy ojcu w Mieście tutejszym zostającą.— Małżeństwo
Line 17: to poprzedziły trzy zapowiedzie na dniach szóstym/ośmna-

The Patronymic is cited on line 15

There is always the possibility that there is a problem with the raw transcription but the AI did peer review to check

what more can I say ....

11/1/2026 12:22 PM

well... apparently a lot ...I wasn't expecting to do a follow up... but there I was doing this another test...looking at location and date data

Cut and paste to spreadsheet (separated by : )

Location Name / Address : Usage Type : Associated Persons by Role & Name : Administrative Hierarchy
Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą (Miasto tutejsze) : Location where event registered & occurred : Civil Registrar, Witnesses, Groom, Bride, Parents : Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą, Płock Governorate, Congress Poland, Russian Empire
Bóżnica Miasta tutejszego : Location of related event (Reading of banns) : Officiating Rabbi / Community : Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą

Miasto tutejsze = the city here ie Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą
Bóżnica Miasta tutejszego = the synagogue in Bóżnica
Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą = Dobrzyń on the Drwęca (river) not to be confused with Dobrzyń on the Wisłą (river)
Bóżnica is 36 miles NNE of Dobrzyń nad Drwęcą
There was a synagogue in Dobrzyń (although not sure of when it was established) https://maps.app.goo.gl/ra9hZAmFhtsaYduz7
I checked the raw transcript and Bóżnica is explicitly stated on line 20 I believe in relation to the reading of the banns

Cut and paste to spreadsheet (separated by : )

Julian Date & Time : Gregorian Date & Time : Milestone Event : Comments
6 Sept 1858 : 18 Sept 1858 : Reading of Banns (1st) : Announced in the local synagogue (*Bóżnica*)
13 Sept 1858 : 25 Sept 1858 : Reading of Banns (2nd) : Announced in the local synagogue
20 Sept 1858 : 2 Oct 1858 : Reading of Banns (3rd) : Announced in the local synagogue
22 Dec 1858 : 3 Jan 1859 : Civil Registration / Wedding Ceremony : Double date reflects Julian/Gregorian calendar shift (12 days in 19th c.); registered at 3:00 PM

The implication (what would I know ?) is that one of parties came from Bóżnica

11/1/2026 12:23 PM

### Curator Task 1: Diplomatic Transcription

*(Strict character-by-character transcription with numbered rows, preserving orthography and structure)*

1. Działo się w Mieście Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą dnia dwa-
2. dziestego drugiego Grudnia / czwartego Stycznia Tysiąc ośmset pięć-
3. dziesiąt dziewiątego roku o godzinie trzeciej z południa.
4. Wiadomo czynimy iż w przytomności świadków Dawida
5. Myszka handlarza lat czterdzieści i Binema Woldenberg
6. krawca lat dwadzieścia ośm liczących
7. obydwóch w Mieście tutejszym zamieszkałych na
8. dniu dzisiejszym zawarte zostało religijne Małżeństwo między
9. Salomonem London kawalerem, Czeladnikiem professyi Gar-
10. barskiej urodzonym w Mieście Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą
11. synem Dawida i Bajli z Munterów Małżonków London
12. lat dwadzieścia cztery mającym w Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą
13. zamieszkałym, a Szpryncą Grotsztejn panną urodzoną
14. w Dobrzyniu nad Drwęcą córką Rubina i niegdy Baj-
15. li z Szaferskich Małżonków Grotsztejn lat dziewiętnaście mającą
16. przy ojcu w Mieście tutejszym zostającą.— Małżeństwo
17. to poprzedziły trzy zapowiedzie na dniach szóstym/ośmna-
18. stym, trzynastym/dwudziestym piątym Września i dwu-
19. dziestym Września / drugim Października roku Tysiąc ośmset
20. pięćdziesiąt ośmego w Bóżnicy Miasta tutejszego ogłoszone.—
21. Zezwolenie obecnego Aktowi Małżeństwa rodziców zaślubione-
22. go i ojca zaślubionej ustnie było oświadczone. Małżonkowie nowi
23. oświadczają iż żadnych umów przedślubnych nie zawierali.
24. Obrzęd ten religijny dopełniony został przez Jakóba Braun po-
25. dnika zastępcę obowiązki Rabina Miasta tutejszego sprawując-
26. ego.— Akt ten po odczytaniu przez nas przez stawających podpi-
27. sany został, oprócz Matki zaślubionego tudzież samej zaślubio-
28. nej które oświadczyły iż pisać nie umieją.—
29. Znaczy Dawid Myszka [podpis / m.k.]
30. B. Woldenberg
31. Znaczy Salomon London [podpis / m.k.]
32. Dawid London
33. Rubin Grotsztejn
34. pełniący zastępczo obowiązki Rabina Podrabin
35. Znaczy Jakób Braun [podpis / m.k.]
36. Utrzymujący Akta Stanu Cywilnego Wyznań Niechrześcijańskich
37. Burmistrz Burhaming Serafiński

Reverting back to Bride Mother'sRanked Probable Family Names: ie
Szafer (LD: 0) *(Source: Dobrzyń Records)*,
Schäfer (LD: 2) *(Source: JewishGen)*,
Szafran (LD: 3) *(Source: Unverified)*

I realised that "Schäfer" is German (of which Szafer is the polanised version) Schäfer is of course the german word for "Shepherd" The implication being that the mother's family had a german loan name based on occupation of father/grandfather previously assigned by Austian/Prussian officials

11/2/2026 3:34 AM

Correction: belay what I said about "Bóżnica Miasta tutejszego" ; I may be able to use AI but I definitely need to practice with google translator..... Term correctly translates as Synagogue of this town ie of Dobrzyn nad Drweca ... Sorry about that .... need more sleep

ViewMate Posting VM 115613

Submitted by Jeremy Thomas London

Learn more about our organizational leadership, mission, and values. There are numerous opportunities to get involved yourself!

Search millions of records from around the globe, including more than 4 million records related to the Holocaust, and more than 4.2 million burial records. Records are continually added each month - check back often for new information!

Discover your ancestral town, explore geographic/regional based sections of the JewishGen site (Research Divisions), and explore what daily life was like for your ancestors - and what we can learn from them today.

Enhance your research with online classes and dozens of helpful articles. University students can apply for the Bennett & Robin Greenspan L'dor V'dor Legacy Program, and those "out of school" can help preserve Jewish Heritage in Poland with unique study & volunteer experiences.

Connect with tens of thousands of other JewishGen members via the Family Finder, Discussion Group, Facebook Group, and ViewMate. It's a great way to share success, ask questions, and stay informed of the happenings throughout the Jewish genealogical community.

The JewishGen site is offered as a free public resource. However, it costs a lot of money to maintain and expand our services. If you are in a position to do so, please consider a contribution today - your support will make a difference!

ViewMate Posting VM 115613

Submitted by Jeremy Thomas London