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ViewMate Posting VM 70258

Submitted by Barrie Lynn Karp, PhD

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Information Picture Question
Category: Translation - Hungarian
Approval Date: 3/17/2019 4:40 PM
Family Surname: WEISZ
Country: Hungary
Town: Munkacs
Date of Image: 1892
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1. Please translate line 66. (for Jozsef Ber WEISZ - possible sibling of my maternal grandfather, Abraham Isaac Weiss (1887-1969); his parents' names are listed differently on different b. records for siblings of my grandfather; & listed also previously on ViewMate: Posting 68954.
2. Are these the same parents as for ViewMate Posting 68955? And same parents as for my maternal grandfather, Abraham Isaac Weiss (1887-1969)
NOTE: Father of my maternal grandfather, Abraham Isaac Weiss (1887-1969) is listed on various documents as: Hersh Meilech Hers Herman Hersko Harold (Aron?) Hery Weiss.
NOTE: mother my maternal grandfather, Abraham Isaac Weiss (1887-1969) is listed on various documents as: Chaje, Hannah. I have never seen maiden name for her, until this document for Joszef Ber WEISS, where it is listed as Hani EIZLER. QUESTION: Is she the same person, my great grandmother, Chaje Weiss?

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On  Response 
3/18/2019 10:21 AM Jozsef Ber born 1892 July 6, male, illegitimate
Father: Herman Weisz, born Skole, day labourer
Mother:Hani Eizler, born Szidorfalva
Parents' home and birth place: Szidorfalva
Midwife: Mari Dohanie
Circumciser: Abraham Bek, farmer, from F. Vernicze
Koma: Fulop Eizler, occupation?, from Szidorfalva

Can no longer access VM 68954, 68955.

Hani can easily be Hanna

3/18/2019 12:48 PM The koma occupation seems as foldes - farmer.
3/18/2019 6:44 PM 1892.
66. Jozsef Ber, July 6, male, illegitimate
Father: Herman Weisz, born in Skole, day-laborer
Mother: Hani Eizler, born in Szidorfalva
Residence: Szidorfalva
Midwife: Mari Dohámer?
Circumciser: Abraham Bek, farmer, F. Vermere?
Circumcision: July 13
Sponsor/witness: Fülöp Eizler, farmer in Szidorfalva

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Hersh or Hirsh "stag" was a highly variable group of names, even by Jewish standards; forms include Herskó, Herschel, Hirs(l), Hers(l), etc., and the secular equivalent could be just about anything starting with H, although I suppose Herman was the most automatic association.

Hani was most often a diminutive of Johanna, but it was also used as a secular equivalent of any name in H/Ch, such as Chana/Chane or Chaja/Chaje. Any of these names could morph into Anna and all of its traditional diminutives: the midwife in a bunch of Hódmezővásárhely births recently posted on ViewMate was Nancsi Eizler, occasionally recorded as Anna Eizler.

As to whether Hani Eizler is the same as Hani Weisz: I'm not sure, but my gut feeling is no. A bunch of the records with mother Hani Weisz are marked as illegitimate, implying that Weisz was in fact her maiden name, which happened to be the same as her not-husband's. The mothers in these records are almost always listed with a different surname than the fathers, and the English/German custom of adopting just your husband's surname as your own did not really exist in Hungarian. (They would've considered that wimping out or going only halfway - a woman's proper married name didn't mention her at all: Weisz Hermanné "Mrs. Herman Weisz".)

I think you need to make a chart with all of the names, birthplaces, occupations, sponsors, midwives, etc. from all of the birth records you've found so far, and see if it makes sense chronologically and geographically for them all to be the same family.
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