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ViewMate Posting VM 22031

Submitted by Ronnie Lebi

Information Picture Question
Category: Translation - Hungarian
Approval Date: 3/14/2012 4:02 PM
Family Surname: Rosler/Rozsler/Rosner
Country: Hungary
Town: Budapest VIII
Date of Image: September 1902
Click the picture to enlarge

This is the birth record of my maternal ggm Gizella Fein (nee Rosler/Rozsler), exerpted from the Hungarian Civil Records (for Budapest VIII kerulet) on Family Search.

We're completely perplexed; not only were we unaware that perhaps my ggm was illegitimate, but her mother's name on the birth record differs from that of my ggm's marriage records (and my gggm's death record); that is, Netti Izsak nee Rozsler.

Please see http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22081 for the second part of this document.

Please help us resolve this mystery!

Thanks,
Ronnie Lebi
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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On  Response 
3/15/2012 1:49 PM Hello Ronnie,

A baby girl was born on September 12, 1902 to Etel Rosner, who was Jewish, age 20 years, occupation shown as servant. It is my interpretation that the birth took place in what seems to have been a type of teaching hospital at a university, which specialized in births and women's health issues.

On March 8, 1904, a correction was made of the name and age of the mother. From Etel Rosner, age 20, it was changed to Netti Rosler, age 19. (This might be reasonable, as perhaps the surname was misspelled and she might have used the name Netti rather than Etel. Also, her age may have been incorrectly noted at the time of the baby's birth.)

On January 29, 1904...not sure what occurred on that date, but it is noted. On May 16, 1904, there is a notation with the name of Izsak Izrael Mordche Bereg. I don't know if Bereg is the surname or the name of his residence. His birthplace was Munkacs. This note is continued on a following page. PLEASE NOTE that this additional page is missing from your image and seems to be important to the remainder of the side notations, as it provides the information about this man's connection. If you are able to post that image or obtain this document, please let me know, and I'll be happy to try to help you with it....Jo





3/16/2012 1:39 AM Ronny, In the last part of the certificate there is a "Later added notes" ("Utolagos bejegyzesek) Here it is mentioned that "According to the decision of the Court of the VIII-st District, Etel Ro:snel's name is to be changed to Netti Ro:sler.(":" is for the umlaut on the "o") Her age is to be changed from 2O to 19. There is mention of Izsak Izrael Mordike as a person also present at the Court. He is from Bereg County, born in Munkacs. Then the next sentence tells us that there is more coming on the next page. But there is no next page.
I hope it is of some use to you.
Agnes Sotete-Sonnenfeld
3/17/2012 7:18 AM The name and age change is definitely a correction of the record. The birth was reported by the maternity clinic, and was corrected subsequently. The recorded name Etel Rosler should be ignored.

The continuation should be interesting; itmay have written up on the next peg of the register or in a sidebar. Can you look it up on FS?

As for the name of witness mentioned, I read it As IZSÁK Izrael Mordehe, born in Munkacs, Bereg county.

It could be that Mr. Izsak married Netti sometime after the birth and adopted the child.

3/17/2012 12:43 PM I have found the next page on Family Search site: -https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11665-85918-77?cc=1452460&wc=14339204 -

The continuation says that Mr Izsak - 33 years old jewish shoemaker - confirmed that he is the father of the child and he married legally Netti Roszler on 09-Jul-1903





3/18/2012 8:17 AM the whole issue of "legitimacy" is complicated by the fact that there was usually a religious ceremony, which the jewish community viewed as the "real" marriage, and then there were the requirements of the civil authorities, which sometimes required expensive fees, or even prohibited jews from marrying altogether.

this indicates that your ggggm was named Rosler Netti, born in Vasarut in Pozsony megye, the wife of Izsak izrael Mordche, who was born in Munkacs in Bereg megye. (coincidentally, at opposite ends if the country.)

but if you want to talk about it, give me a call sometime.

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