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ViewMate Posting VM 26726

Submitted by Howard Fink

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Information Picture Question
Category: Translation - Polish
Approval Date: 3/24/2013 4:35 PM
Family Surname: SCHENKEL, SCHNEIER
Country: Poland
Town: Tarnów
Date of Image: 1847
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I need to understand the child's given name entries for birth records 4932 and 4937. These do not seem to be names, so I guess that the word is a status, like stillborn or unnamed, but I do not recognize it.

Please enter the meaning of this word if you recognize it.

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On  Response 
3/25/2013 2:34 AM 4932 Hersch SCHENKEL
4937 Hersch SCHNEIER
3/25/2013 5:52 AM 4932 looks like "Szmuyl"
Can't read 4937.

Hope this helps.
3/25/2013 8:23 AM I'm not sure the first letter of the first name is an "S". I think the last letter may be an "s". I would suggest looking at the grandparents' or even gr-grandparents' names, if you have them (or, by extension, the names of grandchildren of these people) to see if the name shows up in the family line.
3/25/2013 1:13 PM I believe that the initial letter is 'Z', leading to "Zrapf" or variations thereon. The mother tongue would be German (Galicia) but the printed form is Latin.

Neither of these languages admits to such a word. Nor does it show up in any Yiddish spelling I tried. I agree that it is not a name.
3/27/2013 2:24 AM The last responder was a 100% correct: in both cases the first name is "Hersch", just the parents/surnames differ (SCHENKEL in #4932, SCHNEIER in #4937). Kind regards, Alex. (in Mainz/Germany)
3/27/2013 2:26 AM Correction: it was the first responder! Kind regards, Alex. (in Mainz/Germany)
3/27/2013 2:27 PM Forgive me from making this into a forum, and I am not at all doubting the response from Alex in Mainz, but I'd be interested to learn how phonetically and using the script of that time, the name translates to Hersch. Especially how does that differ from the first three entry Patria given and surnames that look as if they may be more "Hersch" than the two in question. Is one possibly cyrillic based and the other latinized?
3/27/2013 4:48 PM Dear Howard. I think I know now what you mean. It is indeed strange that the author (handwriting looks like it was only one) mixed up the writing style (Gothic/Latin) within one document. Maybe he was just doing wrong, and had planned to use Latin for the (official) document and just accidently used his every-day handwriting. This is how it (the "Gothic" or "Kurrentschrift") looks like: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deutsche_Kurrentschrift.svg
If you look at the quantity you will find that 9 of all the words starting with H were written in Latin and only 2 in Gothic. To me it is an accident (no more or less) and means "Hersch". Alex
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